The Alberta Teachers’ Association president Jason Schilling sits down with Alberta Primetime host Michael Higgins to discuss the impact of legislation ordering teachers back to work, and the association’s potential next steps. This interview has been edited for clarity and length. Michael Higgins: How would you describe the mindset of teachers at the moment? Jason Schilling: The suspension of the rules of how to normally push legislation through, to get it done in one night, and then to invoke the notwithstanding clause and impose a settlement on teachers, was deeply disrespectful, extremely frustrating, and left teachers that night feeling demoralized. I was in the gallery with teachers that evening as we watched this get tabled, and they were in tears over the fact that their concerns, the issues they have raised, the time that they put into the strike to make people understand the seriousness of the issue, was just dismissed by government in a way. That was an act of cowardice, to table this bill, say it’s over and done with, and we’re going to move on. MH: Is your fight over? Where have you landed on a potential legal challenge? JS: Absolutely not. We’re looking at the bill, we’ve had it for a couple of days at this point, so we’re doing some analysis work on that. We will be pursuing legal challenges. We’ve heard from a variety of different lawyers from across the country who are also interested in this case - because this case, with the use of the notwithstanding clause, is bigger than teachers. This will affect every worker who’s unionized within the province and does also affect workers across Canada. If we have governments that are now going to so easily use a notwithstanding clause to get themselves out of situations, then that’s a bigger question for the rest of us as citizens of Alberta and of Canada as well. MH: Was there another way forward to return to classes and continue bargaining that the teachers would be open to? JS: There are always other options. They had other options, even if they legislated us back. They could have done binding arbitration, for example. I’ve heard government talk about the enhanced mediation, and that we just turned it down. But the rules they wanted to have going into enhanced mediation was, “We’re not going to talk about some of the issues that you [want to talk about]. We just want to talk about the things that we want to talk about.” If you’re going to go into arbitration, we want it to be unfettered, so that everything could still be on the table, so that you could still have those conversations. You might have conversations and negotiate a little bit about what that looks like, but ideally, a negotiated settlement would have been what we wanted to see and what we were pushing towards. This is not the outcome that teachers wanted. MH: Students struck out on their own Thursday, protesting in a number of locations. How do you feel about that? Is that something the ATA supports? JS: It’s not anything we organized. We didn’t encourage the student walk out. We have nothing to do with that. I just want to put that out there, because I’ve seen a lot of rumours online that suggested we did. That’s just simply not true. Students are the ones who are in our classrooms that are overcrowded. They’re the ones who don’t have the resources they need to learn. Their voice is just as important in this conversation as anybody’s voice, as teachers’, parents’ voices, government’s voices. Often we talk about “this is for the students,” but sometimes I feel like people ignore the student voice. They’ve organized themselves, saying we have some thoughts and some ideas around this, and that we too are not happy with the situation that’s happening in our schools. They see it because they live it, and they should have opportunities to express it as well. MH: A coalition of unions is pledging action in response to this week’s developments. How does the ATA fit into that equation? JS: The association meets regularly with other unions to talk about this. We’ll have to all work together to co-ordinate pushing back on government for the use of the notwithstanding clause in this regard. Like I said before, it’s going to affect negotiations with every public sector union that is out there, and we still have other unions that are in negotiation process right now. If the [UCP government is] going to use it on us because they are in a tricky situation that they want to get out of, they will use it on others. We’re on a slippery slope now, so we’ll have to just keep working and coordinating as unions across the province. MH: How do you weigh the value of the support of the other unions where teachers are concerned? JS: When we work together, we all rise together. When unions and unionized workers are supported within their communities, the communities are supported as well. Because these are public sector workers who are doing work for the greater good of the public - health care, education. It also affects private unions, because it also gives employers bad ideas. It seems like bad ideas sometimes spread a lot quicker than the good ideas. We want to make sure that we’re in a situation when you’re bargaining that it’s done in good faith, that you’re following the rules and the procedures around that, so that you’re getting to a deal that both parties can accept and not have such a draconian sort of response like you saw by this government on Monday. MH: There is now a commitment to reinstating the counting and public reporting of class sizes. How far does that go as follow-up action, and addressing concerns around class sizes and complexity? JS: As our concerns have been raised around class size and complexity, we didn’t have the data from government. October 2019 is when they stopped collecting this information. Now that they’re going to do that again – it’s something we’ve been pushing for years. I’m glad to see that they’re actually going to do that. It’s good for us to have that data, and we need to make sure that they are releasing it publicly. When they say we’re going to release it on this date, then I fully expect that’s the date it’s going to be released and not be delayed, and that it is fulsome and that the public can see it. MH: How much of a window is that for the ATA to work with the government and improve that? JS: We’ll definitely work with them to make sure the information is there, and that it’s information we can use in terms of our own policy at the association. The premier’s also announced a task force around classroom complexity, and so in order for that group to do its work, they need this data. But I’ll tell you right now, any teacher across this province can tell them what that data is going to tell them, today. MH: This has been a stressful time for all involved. How worried are you about teachers walking away from the profession? JS: We’ve been worried about teacher retention and recruitment for years now. They’re rightfully so angry about this, and they should be, because they feel like they’ve put it all on the line, which they did, and I’m extremely proud of them for doing that. Standing up, speaking truth to power, is not an easy thing to do. They could see this as a potential moment where, “I’ve had enough with this government. I’ve had enough of the class size. I’ve had enough, and I’m going to walk away.” I think that’s a real tragedy here. We have excellent teachers in Alberta who deserve to be supported by this government, because it is, in fact, their job to do that. If the government is unwilling to do that, and it causes teachers to leave the profession, that’s a shame that the government will have to take.
