Q&A: Montreal police chief responds to man being tased, almost struck by police cruisers

Police chief Fady Dagher spoke to CTV News about Thursday's operation, mental health issues in Montreal and other realities officers are facing.

After the dramatic Montreal police (SPVM) intervention where a 34-year-old man was pepper-sprayed, tased, shot with rubber bullets and nearly struck by two police SUVs that collided head-on with one another, police chief Fady Dagher spoke to CTV News reporter Denise Roberts about the operation, mental health issues in Montreal and other realities officers are facing.

The man is facing criminal charges in connection with the confrontation.

This article has been edited for length and clarity. Watch the video below for the full interview.

Q. How do you justify what we saw yesterday? Because a lot of people believe this was an overreaction by police?

A. I would not consider it as an overreaction because you have to understand, 7:45 a.m., the cops, they were patrolling that area, Berri and Sainte-Catherine, full of people, and they were right next to the university [UQAM] and the metro.

We were scared that person would get inside the metro or the university.

He had two knives on him, and he was completely disabled by his mental health, so he was in crisis. We didn’t know how he was going to behave; if he goes inside the building, and you have no idea how many doors there are, that’s why you see maybe 20-25 police officers trying to surround him, to try to control him before we lose him.

And the idea is, as soon as we isolate the person, then we will be able to work on the arrest. I don’t know if you saw it yesterday in the video, but you see police officers using pepper spray, taser, even the long rifle with the rubber bullets on purpose, not to hurt him, but to control him and put him on the floor.

Q. Well, it appeared that the two police cars were trying to hit that man.

A. Yes, they were coming from the opposite direction. This is one of the techniques that we have.

Usually, we don’t use the car, but we use the bumper on purpose to destabilize the person, not to kill the person.

What you saw on the video - the two crash - today in the debriefing operation, we’re going to see how that happened. Is there anything we can improve? Obviously, there’s some stuff that we have to improve in our intervention, but thank God, everything, at the end, nobody was heavily injured. No citizen was injured. The person is okay, and the cops are okay.

But you’re right when you see the two cars on the video, you’re like, ‘What the heck is happening?’ But it’s one of the techniques that we use at the level of the legs, just to destabilize the person, and we’re going to be able to control him after that.

Q. So they were trying to hit the man’s legs?

A. At the level of the legs, yes.

Q. Okay, but it appeared that didn’t work.

A. No. He jumped, and he avoided two cars. We intervened on that person five times in the last year and a half, and every time, mentally, he’s very disturbed, and every time, we had to use a level of force because he’s never collaborative. And that person, our system, we know him, and still he’s on the street. And yesterday he had two knives.

I just want you to remember, 7:45 in the morning, full of people downtown. God knows what could happen if he goes inside the university or the metro?

Q. Was that man shot with real bullets, rubber bullets?

A. We used all the weapons that we have, even the guns, but we didn’t aim at him. The rubber bullets and the Taser worked on him. So we were able to use the rubber bullets to destabilize him, and then at the end, the Taser. We used the Taser on the chest, but it didn’t work because of the jacket that you can have in the winter. But on the legs, it worked, and then we were able to control him.

Q. Is that man appearing in court today?

A. Yes.

Q. And will he be facing charges?

A. Well, he’s facing five charges.

My police officers, I admire them. The courage that they had to go to the danger, to run into the danger, instead of running the other way. The fact that they saved him, they saved them, they saved the people around that, for me, is marvellous.

But [it] doesn’t mean that everything went well. Now we are working on the debriefing operation, and we’re going to see how we can improve next time. I’m very worried to see all these mental health issues on the streets, and that’s what affects the sentiment of security. People feel very insecure, not because the level of crime went up, but because of this behaviour on the streets. People are wondering what’s happening?

Q. We know there’s a program where future psychiatrists at the University de Montreal will be riding with police. How important is a program like this?

A. I’ve been negotiating with the University de Montreal for the last three years, and I’m so happy that recently, the chairman of the Faculty of Medicine, Dr. [Patrick] Cosette, accepted to send future doctors in psychiatry to the field with our police officers.

It’s extremely important that the services come on the street because those people are really vulnerable. They don’t go to the services.

So how can we help them? Serve them on the street to avoid those kinds of crises. I’m happy that the university is following our suggestion.

I think, in the training of the doctors, they have seven years, in the second year of residency, come on the field. Come on the street. Don’t stay in the emergency. Come on the street and take care of those people on the street. They will not go to the hospital. We’re going to avoid having too many people in the emergency.

So they agree. They already sent eight to 10 future doctors. They loved it. Now we’re hoping to have it as a systemic [program]. We will try to do it every year with the University of Montreal. And I welcome McGill. I welcome other universities that want to jump in. I think it needs an effort from everybody. It’s not just the police. It’s the health system, everybody.

Q. What kind of support will that be for the police officers?

A. Well, I’m not an expert. Our cops and me, we’re not experts in mental health. They are the experts, but we are experts in security, and we know the people on the street. We know them very well. Actually, some of the doctors that came, they were impressed to see how we know the stories of the people, the names, the behaviours, where they come from, the family background.

‘How do you know them?’ Well, 24/7, we are with them on the streets. So one part, we’re helping the doctors to open a door to meet those people before they get to the hospital. And, on the other hand, a police officer is not well-equipped to evaluate.

Q. Will there be an investigation about what happened yesterday?

A. I will not talk about the investigation, because we called the [police watchdog] BEI to see if they want to take the case. They say, no, you don’t need to, because nobody died and there’s no bad injuries. So now what we’re doing inside, we are revising: How went the intervention? What went very well? What went bad, and how can we improve? I don’t call it an investigation. I call it more of an operational debriefing.

Q. You met with the officers involved this morning. What was that meeting like?

A. I found it very, very, very brave. I’m impressed by those cops.

But, saying that, I wonder if one day, it’s not going to go well because we never know. Those kinds of situations, right now, we can say thank you to those police officers. I’m very proud to be Montrealers and have those cops on the street protecting the citizens, but it ended well yesterday. I don’t know for the next time. They were happy to see that it went well, but they are worried.

They told me, ‘Chief, we’re dealing with that kind of mental health every day, many times during the shift, in an eight-hour shift, we are only dealing with those people, people with mental health issues, and we are not magicians, police officers, we do the best we can.’

Q. Are you concerned that people are very critical?

A. Yes, people are very critical, and I think people are allowed to be critical.

There’s nothing elegant in the police intervention when it comes to using force, nothing elegant. It’s been 35 years I’ve been in a police force. I never, never saw one video where you see, ‘Wow, it’s so elegant, so delicate. Wow. Those guys are amazing.’

No, when you see two cars, when you see 20, it’s impressive, but when you understand the mindset of those cops, what they want to do.

Think about it, when you use the Taser, the pepper spray, the car, the gun with the rubber bullets, is your intention to kill the person? Absolutely not. You’re trying everything you can not to kill that person.

That’s what I’m saying. Thank God we’re in Montreal and those police officers were trained. But it doesn’t mean that in two, three weeks, I’m not going to have a fatal event where we had to use a gun. But again, we’re going to be judged, and we’re going to be criticized a bit everywhere.