Sen. Mobina Jaffer on nearly losing her father, husband to Ugandan soldiers prior to being expelled

Senator Mobina Jaffer's Ugandan Roots Sen. Mobina Jaffer reflects on nearly losing her father and her husband to Ugandan soldiers prior to being expelled.

Sen. Mobina Jaffer represents British Columbia in the Senate of Canada. She was appointed to the Senate on June 13, 2001 by Prime Minister Jean Chretien.

She is the first Muslim senator, the first African-born senator, and the first senator of South Asian descent.  Jaffer was also one of the more than thousands of Ugandans of Asian origin who were expelled from the country when, in August 1972, dictator Idi Amin announced that the South-Asian population had 90 days to get out of the country, or else.

As part of the upcoming CTV News special 'Expelled: My Roots in Uganda with Omar Sachedina', the senator spoke with producer Shelley Ayres on nearly losing her father and her husband to Ugandan soldiers prior to being expelled.

Below is a transcript of an edited interview, which you can watch in our video player above.

Question: What do you remember about living in Uganda?

Senator Jaffer: I have very fond memories of Uganda, and Uganda is still my home. And, you know, they say that those who drink the water of the Nile always come back. So there are very fond memories I have of Uganda.

Question: How did your grandparents come to Uganda?

Senator Jaffer: So, my ancestors are from Gujarat, India. And my grandparents, at a very young age came to Uganda. And they started off in a verysmall area. And my grandfather was a very enterprising man. But in the early years, my grandmother, she was a real businesswoman and she worked in, you know, making paint and things like that. So both my grandparents were very enterprising

Question: How was your father elected into Ugandan Parliament?

Senator Jaffer: My dad was elected by Africans, and my dad had a very close relationship with Africans. And in fact our grandfather, after my biological grandfather died, became an African man. And we are still in connection with his family. Very close connection. And you know, that is why it really hurt me when we left, because I felt that my dad did everything to be a Ugandan

Question: What was your father’s job and relationship to Idi Amin?

Senator Jaffer: My dad was a member of parliament and very well-connected. He knew Idi Amin because he was chief of the army and he knew Idi Amin because he would come to our house for lunch. And so and I guess Idi Amin sort of thought that my dad was someone he could talk to. And so he would come to our house for lunch and not for long, just for a few days. But it was just, for me, I would keep thinking, why is he asking my dad? “Is he really the president?” The reason I say this to you is to tell you that he didn't expect to become president.

Question: What was it like seeing President Idi Amin at your house for lunch?

Senator Jaffer: Yes, he would be at our lunch table, and many other times, and he was a very, very big man. And when he walked into the room, he really took over the room and sort of controlled the room. And so my recollection at first was that he just was you know.. Well I want to put it kindly but we didn’t think much of him in the sense that we knew he was not very smart and things like that, and he was only put in power by foreign powers, otherwise he would never have become president. And so we were very, we thought it was short term. Soon Obote would be back and I know it sounds foolish now. But, you know, you always live and hope that this is a short term and that things will change and we would again have a Democrat in government.

Question: Did you sense tension between the black Ugandans and Asians?

Senator Jaffer: So you have to understand and of course, we were under colonial leadership and I was not white. And then we had the new government and I was not Black. So we always knew there was tension between us and African people. But in our household, we were very strongly brought up as Ugandans. And, you know, my dad would always say that, yes, there are issues, but that's just a small hurdle in life, you know, and you would say that can’t hold you back. You just have to look past it. And you think about my dad, he built schools for girls in Uganda, he never, ever differentiated and my African grandfather used to say that, you know, chickens can have white chickens and black and brown chickens. And this is my brown son. And, you know, I knew so we were very much integrated into the community. So of course, it wouldn't be correct if I said that we didn't realize that we were not black or white.

Question: What was it like in Uganda before the expulsion decree in August 1972?

Senator Jaffer: It was horrible, our mayor was, I won't tell you, but he was killed very badly on the streets in front of all of us. So things were very tough. And my mother was a probation and social worker, probation officer and social worker. She would go to jail because at that time we had lashings and we had hangings. And as a probation officer, she would have to go into prison and all of those things, and she'd come back very, very upset because she would say, things are very bad. I would hear her whisper to my dad,things are very bad. The fact that in jail they are hammering people, political prisoners to death. Things were just worse. And so obviously, we were getting very concerned. Obviously, we had concerns. But, you know, it's your home and you always think tomorrow things will be better.

Question: What happened when your father learned his life was in danger?

Senator Jaffer:  In June of 1972, my father found out from a senior military person that that night it was his turn to be killed. Many, many politicians, especially Asian politicians, were being well in Uganda they’d disappear, but really they were killed.

And so overnight, my dad fled Uganda. But we got a call that he had been killed. And you can imagine we've got four siblings in England. And my mother was there because my sister was having eye surgery and we were just devastated. Bless my mum. She was so strong, she said, 'No, Dad's not been killed. We will see him. Dad's not been killed. I have a feeling he's  not been killed.' But you can imagine how we felt to this day. I just get goosebumps when I think of that day that we went through.

And then the next day, can you imagine? There was a knock on our door and my dad was there. He had escaped. Oh, it was. Oh, my God. I can't tell you. First, we just couldn't believe it. We thought we were making, you know, having imagination. And then when we saw him and spent some time with him, we were so relieved, you know, because I especially my and my life was around my father. He was my son, my moon, my everything and and all the other children. So it was it was the most amazing time for us to have my dad back.

Question: How did you react when Idi Amin announced the expulsion?

Senator Jaffer:  We all laughed. We all laughed. We laughed because we thought, 'Oh, that's another dream he's had. Tomorrow he’ll change his mind.' And, you know, we went about our business as if tomorrow things will be back to normal. And then he wasn't. Then it got worse and worse. And my dad insisted that my husband and I leave right away. And we were in my husband’s small village of Fort Portal. And just before we were leaving, the army arrived and they came to get me and there were four young men and it was awful. And my husband stood in front of me and said, 'No, you're not going to take her, you can take me but not to her.'

They took him and they had two guns on his head, guns on, rifles on his head and rifles on his side, pointing towards his stomach, then dragged him out in a jeep and they left. And that day I thought my world has ended. My world has ended.  I was a young bride and just been married to him for a year and now we've been married 51 years. So but at that time I thought my world has ended and it was normal when a person was taken by the army, you would never see them again.

Question: How did your husband escape?

Senator Jaffer: We were so, so lucky. I'm just born lucky. We were so lucky that the army was taking my husband and the police arrived. The police arrived and the head of the police was a friend of my father in law's, and he absolutely insisted on taking my husband to the police station and not to the army barracks. And thanks to the intervention of that police officer, my husband is alive today. They did take him to the police station, yeah he did have a very rough time there, but he was alive. And so obviously we left soon after.

Question: How did the world respond to your family and those expelled?

Senator Jaffer: -One of the most amazing things happened to Ugandan Asians, the world opened its doors. Literally, the world opened its doors.

Canadian officials were absolutely, they did everything. Mike Molloy, one of the officers, even went to our prisons and got the political prisoners out, and literally drove them to the airport. And he tells the story, you should ask him, that he put them on plane, the army wanted to take them off and he said, 'No, that plane is Canadian territory you can’t go on it.' We know that’s not true but he got away with that and that's the kind of thing Canadian officials did. It was Canadian officials that saved many, many lives of Asians in Uganda. They were heroic, we owe so much to them.

Question: Why did your family choose Canada?

Senator Jaffer: So, you know, my father was a politician and he traveled all over the world, he had been to Canada. And because he was a former politician, he had visas to go to the U.S., Australia, New Zealand and stay in England. But he decided to come to Canada because he said in Canada my great grandchildren will not be thrown out. Canada is the place of immigrants. Everyone's an immigrant except for Indigenous people and this is the place that I want to raise my family. So my father made that decision for us to come to Canada.

Question: How did you find work as a young woman in Canada?

Senator Jaffer:  I arrived in Canada in 1975 and I had a few rough years then because I was a lawyer, but the Law Society would not accept my credentials and I had a real uphill battle.

When I first came here, I looked everywhere for a job and I got desperate so I went to the directory and I went through all the lawyers. What did I know that Thomas Dohm was one of the most prominent lawyers in British Columbia? I was intrigued. So he asked me to come down and they hired me as a ‘Girl Friday’. I don't think that even exists now, a person who does everything, because I didn't have any qualifications.

And then a few days later he came and said, “You're a lawyer, why are you doing this work?” And I explained to him my story and he went to the Law Society, asked them for the form. And Tom Dohm went to the Law Society, they were not able to argue with him. And he got the form, I filled it up that night and in 10 days I got my answer about what I had to do. And then I got through my exams and I worked for him. and later on we became law partners.

Question: Why did you choose to get into Canadian politics?

Senator Jaffer: So in my blood is politics but when I came to Canada, one of the things that I thought was how can a refugee ever become a politician? Right? That's just not right. But once I was standing in the lineup and I started talking to somebody who was a Liberal woman, and she encouraged me to come to one of the meetings, Liberal meetings. And I've never looked back. I've done every single role in the Liberal Party.

I really care to give back to Canadians. And I also know that Canadians have done a lot for me.

Question:  What has it been like returning to Africa as a peace envoy?

Senator Jaffer:  Part of my job was to go to many, many African countries to negotiate peace and bring peace in that region on behalf of Canada. And I remember going to Uganda and I met with the president, President Museveni, and when he saw me, he of course, knew me because I was a Ugandan. But also I was my father’s daughter and by this time, my father had gone back to Uganda many times. And he said to me, I am very, very confused. Tell me, what's this? What do Canadians have in their blood? How do they think? How could somebody that's been thrown out by Ugandans, come back as me back as a Canadian senator and peace envoy from Canada. And that's what Canadians are about. And that's why I, I really am proud to be a Canadian, proud to be a Canadian Senator. And I will work as long as I can to make sure I serve Canadians.

Question: What can Canada learn from the Ugandan Expulsion?

Senator Jaffer:  I believe that our government should be looking at, and I’m always pushing the prime minister and minister of iImmigration that, why can't we be more creative, as we were 50 years ago? We literally saved the lives of people. And there are many people, for example, in Yemen, in Afghanistan who are in terrible conditions at the moment.

For thousands and thousands of refugees in our country, they arrive at our doors and they can not even work. I have some cases I'm working with some really sad cases. They haven't got a work permit for 10 years.Can you imagine? How do you go about working, feeding your family? How do you go about living from day to day? And that's the difference.

The Ugandans could come here and thrive because the day they arrived, they had a right to stay in Canada. Most refugees don't. And I think we need to look at a system where we bring people and they are sort of really parishing because we are not processing their paper work. It's very, very frustrating for a person like me who works day and night on trying to help people to settle here and their papers are not being processed. There's no doubt our system is broken. And we need to really look at how, all of us need to look at how all of this and to look at how we want to, first of all, receive refugees. And the second thing is, how do we want to be known around the world?

Question: What have you learned about refugees that come to Canada?

Senator Jaffer:  Refugees don't come here by free will. They come here because their lives are in danger. I can tell you even today 50 years later, if somebody said to me, you had a choice of staying in your homeland or coming here.. we didn't come here because we thought this land here was full of it was great opportunities. We came here because we were desperate. Nobody leaves their home as a true refugee, except if they are desperate. I think we need to re-look at how we see refugees.

Question:  Do you see yourself as both Canadian and Ugandan?

Senator Jaffer: Uganda is still my home. And of course, Canada is my home, too. So I'm lucky, I have two homes. But, you know, my love for Uganda will always be there.

When we speak Swahili and our mannerisms and eating habits, we will always be Ugandans. Right. But we are also Canadians, I’ve been in Canada longer than I was in Uganda, so I'm lucky, I have two countries, and have been able to to expose my children and my grandchildren to two countries. Two lives and our lives are so much richer because we were accepted in Canada and we were able to flourish here. But we also have fond memories of Uganda.

WE WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU

Did Senator Jaffer's story resonate with you? CTVNews.ca wants to hear from you. Share your own family’s stories of immigration to Canada with us.

You can share your story by emailing us at [e-mail] with your name and location. Your comments may be used in a CTVNews.ca story.

WATCH the full network special 'Expelled: My Roots in Uganda' airing Friday, Nov. 4 at 9 p.m. on CTV