Agents lobbying for foreign powers will now need to add their names to a foreign influence registry under Canada’s Countering Foreign Interference Act. The legislation is meant to increase transparency in areas that could see political meddling, like Alberta’s upcoming referendum, which includes a question on separation. Kelly Sundberg, a professor of criminology in the department of economics, justice and policy studies at Mount Royal University, discusses this and more with Alberta Primetime host Michael Higgins. This interview has been edited for length and clarity. Michael Higgins: To what degree do you see these new federal efforts clamping down on those seeking to covertly meddle in Canada’s political process? Kelly Sundberg: I’m glad to see that there’s some movement forward. It’s been a long time coming. Foreign interference has been a significant threat to our country for some time, and a registry is great. But we also see online the manipulation of social media or digital platforms, as well as through various social and educational centres, where we see foreign influence becoming more and more prevalent. So it’s good that we’re having a registry. But it’s one thing to have laws and registries; it’s a whole other thing to enforce them and to ensure the integrity of those safeguards. MH: What level of confidence do you have in the intelligence community – national security agencies, law enforcement included – being able to deal with the risk of foreign actors interfering in domestic politics? KS: This really does fall mostly under the RCMP and the RCMP on the front lines are doing amazing work. But at the end of the day, it’s like law enforcement across this country: They’re dealing with low staff numbers, really stretched resources, and this is an ominous task. The investment has to be in the people to enforce and to regulate this list and to take action against those who are engaged in to manipulate our democracy outside of the rules. And that takes a lot of people, it takes very skilled people, and I don’t think we have enough of them. MH: How do you see Alberta’s referendum landing on the radar where all of this is concerned? KS: I do have significant concern about foreign interference in this upcoming referendum. A lot of the foreign influence is coming online. We see foreign actors around the world, state actors, who want to destabilize our democracy, who would love to see a splinter in our federation, and, of course, they’re going to be active. We would be foolish to think that there is not going to be some degree of foreign interference in this referendum. MH: What value is there in exploiting or amplifying the grievances of Albertans who want to separate? What’s motivating those actors? KS: Countries like Russia, China, and others who have been quite interested in simply destabilizing our democracy, putting fractures within our social fabric, pushing grievances and taking advantage of people’s time online, and swaying their ideas to destroy our democracy. That is part of the agenda of some of these organizations. We as Albertans should be thinking: When we see the propaganda and the information online, who’s actually producing this, and why? And is it accurate or not? This is a time for us to be very vigilant in confirming the information we see. Let’s not jump to conclusions. MH: With the referendum now roughly two months away, what measures do you see the Alberta government taking to address the risks of foreign interference? KS: There’s been a lot of work being done in various areas across the province to ensure the security of where the referendum will take place, and there is active awareness that this is a threat. I know that the RCMP, as well as our Alberta Sheriffs Police Service and other intelligence within the province and federally, are looking at this and keeping an eye on it. Nevertheless, it really comes down to us as Albertans when we’re on our phones. What information is coming to us? Who is bringing it to us, and why? And that’s the key: We have to maintain the vigilance. MH: On that awareness front, and politically speaking, what could or should Albertans be hearing from the provincial government? Should there be updates or warnings issued in the lead up to the vote? KS: I think that this is important both for the federal and the provincial government to let us know what are the threats, what do they know, what should the public be aware of. We’re still two months out, so the campaigning, if you will, and the propaganda is yet to come. MH: You’re just back from Washington, D.C., and this year’s Border Security and Intelligence Summit. What sense did you get that maybe the Alberta referendum is on the radar of powers that be south of the border? KS: It was discussed, actually. We did discuss the issue if there was splintering, and it was quite a frank discussion where we looked their discussion around the fact that at one point in our history, we had one province that was sabre rattling with regards to leaving the federation, and now we have Quebec, Alberta, and even Saskatchewan that has been being more and more vocal. So there is some concern south of the border with respect to the stability of our democracy, and and as I said, this is a testament to the fact that we are a democracy, that we can peacefully have these difficult disagreements and discussions, and at the end of the day, we have the rule of law, and the rule of law will determine what this is once the people decide.
