Governor General Julie Payette denies reports that she’s unhappy on the job and acknowledged some “missteps" during her first year.
Payette sat down with CTV National News Chief Anchor and Senior Editor Lisa LaFlamme at Rideau Hall to discuss her time adjusting to the role. Payette acknowledged a series of unflattering reports that suggested she has bristled at some of her formal responsibilities, including signing last-minute bills and hosting events.
Despite the seemingly turbulent year, Payette called herself an “optimist” and said she is focused on the future.
Here’s a full transcript of that conversation.
Lisa LaFlamme: I want to start with the one year anniversary and I want to get a sense of how your expectations of the role, compare to the reality of the role?
Julie Payette: “When you’re started in a new positon like this one, you think you come in prepared. But the truth is, is that when you start, when you’re announced, the moment you’re announced as the Governor General you become, you become it right away.
“So you learn on the job and that’s very different from my previous job. When I became an astronaut, I was an engineer. I was coding for speech recognition applications, and I became an astronaut and then ended up in Houston. We arrived there and then we go through procedures, they tell us how to work this, and then then we trained for two years before we become a certified astronaut.
“And Governor General, you arrive and it starts right off the starting block with no instruction manual.”
Your previous life, there were manuals, it was about trial and errors. There were test runs. Now there is no manual. So does the job change to fit you, or do you have to change to fit this job?
“It’s a work in progress with any job. There’s always an adaptation and a transition. This job has responsibilities that are essential to the running of our democracy and that are not negotiable. So for this, I do exactly, I don’t make policies, the government makes policies, so that’s the way I do it.
“There’s another part the job which is more the Governor General that puts this flavour on to it and being the first Governor General with a background in science and in technology in particular, that’s the little flavour I’m trying to put in.”
There’s so many areas for us to cover but let’s first start with the constitutional role. The challenge, if I can take you back to the month of June, there are reports that on the marijuana legislation that you pushed back, that you delayed the signing of that legislation, what happened?
“We had a date to sign the legislation or Royal Assent. At the last minute, I was asked to move the date, we did and we signed it. So I’m not so sure, we’re very, very rigorous on this here at Rideau Hall to ensure that every single step of the constitutional role never delays the good functioning of the government and that’s what we’ve done. And I’m very proud of that because I don’t do this alone.
“There’s a lot of back and forth, scheduling is complicated, but we don’t miss a beat, and we don’t miss a deadline.”
Sources inside the government suggest there’s this underlying tension and that’s what I want to understand, between you and your new role and the government.
“We are learning with them how to do this. At first, because I don’t know, then I ask how it works. I would like to understand what I’m doing. Certainly a year later, I do know what this is about and this is really important. One of the things that really surprised me when I came was how important this institution is for Canada. For the governance of Canada and how also this institution can really bring interest and showcase people.
“So that’s why when we did our strategic thinking with our group here in the past year, we came up with really four words that represent us and it’: honor, represent, showcase and serve. The service is to the government.”
So, on the showcase word, I mean I’m sure you’ve been reading all of the same things I’ve been reading. There seems to be headline after headline that, we’ll stick with the one concerning showcase, is that your workload is less than your predecessors. What do you make of that?
“It’s not the reality that’s completely different from the reality. I think because we were so busy preparing our new tool this morning, we finally put online our new website and we are very proud of this. We have been working on this for months, the team. We’re a small team here at Rideau Hall.
“We’re so proud of it because it really has the up to date information. We did not perhaps communicate as well but we’ve been all over Canada. From coast to coast to coast. We have met thousands of Canadians. It’s the privilege of this job, unbelievable.”
What about those charities though that say they’ve been waiting for a year to get an answer from you and they feel like they’re in the dark as to whether the Governor General who traditionally would be part of those, the patrons of these charities hasn’t heard back.
“We are in touch with our partners and we have received a lot of requests. We have received a lot of requests and invitations and messages. I so wish, I so wish I could say yes to everything. It just is impossible.
“We had so many requests that we decided to do it as well as we could and we sat down and we said how can we be as inclusive as possible? As pertinent and dynamic, and how can we partner with more organizations? We can’t be everywhere but what we can do though, even If we say for example we decline a request for a presence somewhere we say we are open for business and this is really important for us.”
What about the honors that bear the name of your office. Like the Governor Generals Award for History or [Medals in] Architecture, and you just recently said that you won’t be at that event, the History Awards. There’s a lot of people who just don’t understand that. So help me understand.
“We are working the schedule with the partners all the time. There are times when I’m not in the country because at the request of the government, I may have to travel. We are always working with them. It’s happened in the past with my predecessors that sometimes it just doesn’t add up but most of the time we try to make it work. And we will continue to do that in the years to come. We are open for business. Please, send us your request.
So what do you say to the Boy Scouts Association and St. John’s Ambulance? These are the organizations that say ‘hey why didn’t we have the honor of the Governor General this year?’
“Because we are working on it now.”
So I want to just dig a little deeper on that. You’re looking at whether the organizations fit your ideology or give me some understanding as to the review that’s under way.
“We have completed the review. Were about to put it out and we looked at the criteria perimeters, we looked at the way other Governor Generals had done this. I know Madame Clarkson went from 750 organizations to 250. So, this has been done before. I just regret it took so long and we’re there. We just have a few more partners to touch base with before we can release completely to the public.”
I did look at the website today and I don’t see the breakdown of that so I think people are still going to be waiting to learn.
“It will be there before the first year which is next week.”
This is my first time having the honour to interview you as Governor General so I want you to take me back to the moment you got that call from I’m assuming the Prime Minister? How did that work a year ago?
“I did get a call from the office of the Prime Minster to go and meet him, and I was certain it was for something else.”
Had you reached out to the government or were you looking for a role in government?
“Not at all. Not at all. I was running a small business at the time and I was very pleased. I’m also the mom of a teenager so I didn’t expect this at all. So when I had a request to meet the Prime Minster, I was certain it was about the announcement of the new astronauts. There were two new astronauts. So I just went with my kid on my jeep and we were floored, the two of us.”
Your reaction, you were floored. Did it take you time to decide yes or no? Did you seek council from anybody to see was this is something you wanted to do? Or is it the kind of thing you can’t say no to?
“It is the kind of thing you can’t say no to, so I asked a number of questions and I did talk to a number of people but I didn’t wait very long. Less than 24 hours. I think it’s very important. I truly believe that if your country calls, there’s only one answer possible.”
What is your reaction to the headlines: ‘The Governor General is looking for an out,’ ‘The Governor General is unhappy in her role, ‘The Governor General: prisoner in a gilded cage. What do you make of this perception?
“The perception we have to address. I welcome comments. I think criticism can be very constructive and can help further. I mean there’s no perfect perfection anywhere. There’s no perfect picture. I don’t pretend to be perfect.
“I started this job and I learned and I had missteps and those missteps I corrected and I will continue to do that, because they’ll come again. It’s human nature. It is important for me to move ahead and to look forward to do that. I’m so motivated. I really feel that after the first year where we’ve crisscrossed Canada, where we’ve planed, we’ve looked forward on where we want to go.
“Now the train was in the station and now I feel like the train is about to leave. We have all the teams on board, we have the ideas and we have the motivation. I’m very blessed to be supported by an amazing team. So I would say were about to take of if I can use a pun.”
But still, even today I have to be honest, on my drive here, I said to the cab driver ‘I’m coming to interview the Governor General’ and his first comment was ‘I hear she’s leaving.’
“I so look forward to continuing in the next few years. And that’s why—I don’t know if the cab driver saw—but we released our one year video. We wanted to release it on the day of the exact one year, the second of October but because of the circumstance we released it a little early. That tells our story and were going to be endeavoring to tell it better.”
What is your message to those trying to tear you down -- or the information out there that suggests there’s a frustration or a locking of heads between the new Governor General and the government?
“I cannot explain that. What I can explain is who we are as a team. I’m a team player. In my previous job, you can’t go to space if you’re not part of the crew. And the crew is just the tip of the iceberg. We have thousands of people on the ground and they basically plan, direct and make us execute missions. There are similarities with that.
“To me, I have to go forward and learn from mistakes but also we do so many good deeds here within the officer of the Governor General. We are representing Canada and were so proud of it and I hope that I continue to do that and people will be proud of what we do. We’re going forward.”
Do you think that’s been overshadowed then, the good work? Because I’m sure it must impact you, the news stories that keep emerging.
“It does but I look forward again. We were in Newfoundland and Labrador just last week when some of the stories started to break out. And I was wondering if that would change how people interacted with me, and with us and, it didn’t at all.
“I had the opportunity to go everywhere in Canada when I was an astronaut because Canadians astronauts, we are a representative of our country. In space but we also do a lot of outreach within Canada. And I’m doing that again and now when I go back to places that I have been, I have received the exact same welcome that I did before in my previous position. So I don’t have this feeling.”
What do you make of this perception then, that is there. How do you fight that?
“With communication and inviting people to come here to do like we are doing now. I’m really grateful we had an interview planned a long time ago and now I think it’s perfectly appropriate at the one-year mark that we have this discussion and I welcome more discussions.”
What do you want to bring to this role? You’ve had a year now to review as you say. What will look different in year two?
“I’m very, very proud of the work that we’ve done in the first year. That I have to say, the team worked so hard. It’s a transition for them as well. They have to go from one Governor General to another Governor General to another Governor General. So that year has been a really cool year, from my perspective.
“It’s been exciting. It’s been remarkable. The connection that has been established throughout Canada has been really good and now we are continuing in that sense. Clearly with the launch of our new website and the launch of a few new initiatives we’ve been working on.
“Today we actually did the first pilot of our new outreach innovative using technology. When I came into this job I did not really understand what a Governor General did. So I’m like, ‘Maybe we can work on that one’ and share more with Canadians the importance of this institution and what it does exactly and why it’s important to Canadians.”
What have you learned in that investigation for yourself? What have you learned about a job that is largely about appearances and yet, you are someone who really wants to be in charge of those relationships, as you put it?
“It’s actually a job with connections. There’s a lot of connection that you help do with people and you do with people. There’s a constitutional role, there’s a representation role -- which I take very seriously. There’s a role of commander-in-chief, which is very dear to my heart because I come from an operational world. And then there is the connection world. The honouring excellence, to listen to people, to be there for them. And that’s why we have been so steadfast in doing this better.”
I wonder if it was a surprise to you that accepting this most elite positon in Canada -- also as the face of Canada -- meant that your whole life was going to be under public scrutiny, your personal life. Was that a surprise to you?
“It was a different way to approach it because I’ve been in the public light for 25 years. So people’s trust in astronauts is quite important. So I had that before. It was a lot more in this position and that’s okay. It comes with public life and it’s a responsibility we take and therefore we take also the fact that people will ask questions and some might have comments to do.”
Did it anger you?
“Why would it? It’s absolutely normal that they do. If, however, there’s a line which is really important and I think in Canada we are very sensitive to that and I’ve felt it all along the last year. People were very sensitive that there is a public part of life and there is a private part of life and I don’t have any issues with where that line is.”
There’s another side though to every life to make us whole. For you, I look at what must have been the darkest moment and I’m thinking of that road, driving down that road, the rainy road and someone running out in front of your car. How did that fatal accident change you?
“Every event, whether they’re positive or negative, shapes us. And sometimes events happen that we couldn’t even fathom. 2011 was a very difficult year for me. That’s probably even an understatement. It was a very difficult year. If I could borrow Her Majesty the Queen’s word, it was my annus horribilis. And that was part of it. But it’s behind me. I’ve moved forward. I’m an optimist.”
Does it make you stronger?
“Oh of course. Unfortunately. Difficult times make us stronger.”
Does it bring empathy? Your own personal experiences, do they help you in better relating to average Canadians?
“Normally it helps, but it is important that I share those. You may bring up the fact that one of the criticisms was that we didn’t go to Humboldt six months ago. And I’m going next month. Next month I’m going to share something I never shared in public before, and it has to do with the fact that I lost my best friend when Space Shuttle Columbia did not come home. I will share that with them and I think it’s very important that we open up this little part and share personal experiences.”
Is it hard to now have limits on your personal privacy?
“The limits come with the function. And so that I understand. But otherwise it is still things that happen in my life and in French there’s an expression that says … people who are happy are without story. I’m very blessed. I’m very well surrounded and I have a great son. I have to say it.”
How’s he adjusting to life in the fish bowl?
“He is so cool.”
Do you learn from him?
“Oh, big time. And he’s 15 so of course he knows everything. He’s great”
What about moving into Rideau Hall? There’s a lot of people who say ‘Hey, the renovation is largely finished. Why not move in?’
“Well I am in Rideau Hall. I’m here every day. My office is here. This is where we work. I’m currently right here on the premise. We have to understand how we’re going to conduct a number of things. And right now with all the partners, were going to figure out that plan.”
Do you want to live in this historic --
“It’s going to happen. For sure I’m going to come here. But before that we’re going to do the right things. We’re going to do the renovations. We’re going to refurbish the ballroom. It’s the most important room in this residence. I call it Canadas residence, where the Governor General is. And right now, I’m right here. So for me it’s normal. I sort of live here.”
One of the things the security is saying that I’ve read about -- they want you to live in here because it’s fully secured. And there is some reporting that suggests the RCMP is having a great challenge tracking you. You’re a woman who wants to go out and run when you want to go out and run. So give me some understanding into the challenge, the frustration, whatever you tell me the word, of having security around you all the time?
“That too comes with the job. And I’m certain that in your career you’ve had a chance to work or do interviews with the RCMP. They’re a very, very professional group and I’m very blessed to have a remarkable group that does close protection. I can assure you, they know. There’s technology. They know where I am.”
They have a GPS on you at every moment?
“Well this morning I went running and they decide and they know better. If there is an issue, they will come to me and we will adjust immediately. They tell what the framework is and we work within that. Clearly, the close protection agents are with me all the time. They are in my private life. So the relationship is absolutely paramount here. Otherwise it would be really difficult.”
Again I want to ask, going forward, what can Canadians see as your vision? I looked for it on the website and I want to understand better what you want to bring to this role?
“Well, being an engineer and a bit of a geek, I would say I like technology -- we’re bringing a bit of that here. We’re using technological tools to reach out and I’m very interested in continuing what I did before as an astronaut. It’s to perhaps inspire young people to go and dare to dream. To find what it is about them that they really like and that they would want to become and to tell them they can be all they want to be because they’re born in a country that is open and tolerant, where we believe in the equality of chances. That there nothing they cannot do.
“When a young person comes and says, ‘Well, I’d like to become an astronaut. Can I?’ And I say there’s no reason why you cannot. For this, that’s why we’re so excited that the team, with this new initiative that we just did a pilot today, which is we reach out to schools with a teleconference and they can come and ask questions to the Governor General.
“The only question that we ask (that) they ask within that 15-20 minutes is ‘What does a Governor General do and how does it fit in with the structure of the country?’ And the rest is open. The kids can ask any question they want.
“And we think this might be something that other people might like to take. So that you can reach out in places where physically, you can’t always go, because we can’t be everywhere.”
Did you ever imagine you would be Governor General of Canada?
“No, I wanted to be an astronaut.”
Well, you got that.
“I tell this story because it’s actually a bit funny. I’m 9, 10 and I’m watching the Apollo astronauts go to the moon. We’re sitting on the floor of a school and they have this … huge TV and I’m looking at that and I’m thinking ‘Me, I would like to do that.’ But it didn’t dawn on me then that they were American, I was Canadian. They were men, I was a girl. They were test pilots, military folks. I’m 9 years old. Nobody in my family has been in an airplane. And they speak English. I didn’t speak English when I was a kid until later. So It’s amazing. That spark you never know where it’s going to light.”
That took discipline. This job is also about discipline. Describe the difference though in the discipline required to fulfil this all-important role as Governor General?
“I would say it’s very similar. And just like in my other job, using a NASA term, failure is not an option. Failure is not an option here. It is important.”
So you’re not going anywhere?
“No.”
Those headlines that say ‘Payette looking for a way out’?
“Oh God, no. I’m so motivated about continuing the next year and making this mandate something that everybody will be proud of. And I really hope so."
Are you worried that there’s a ‘them’ trying to tear down the ‘us’ that you’re trying to present?
“I will take every constructive criticism, make it my own, learn from my mistake and go forward.”
What’s the lesson learned from year one?
“Communicate better. And the team behind me is doing just that, so that’s why I would encourage folks to follow us. We’re on social media. We just launched a new website. We did a one-year video and write to us, communicate with us. We answer to everybody. We’re open for business.”
Is there anything else you’d like to add? Is there anything final thoughts, looking forward, vision that you’d like to share?
“I think that we are blessed to live here in Canada. We are in a position to make a difference and to do that we have to work, because nothing comes without effort.
“We are in the position, as a country, as citizens of the world, to bring this message of openness, of tolerance, of inclusivity, of equality of chances, and of using our minds and critical thinking. Base our decision-making using facts and evidence to support it and our better judgment – best judgment, as much as possible –to go forward. And that, to me, is who we are.”
Are you worried about the tone of the world right now? Based on what you’re saying, there’s a definite tone, certainly even coming from the highest office in America that seems to be counterproductive to the message you’re putting forward.
“What reassures me is the fact that right now, today, orbiting the planet is the International Space Station. Onboard there are Russians, Americans, there were Canadians. There’s one coming, going there in December, that is (David) Saint-Jacques. There are people from Japan and people from Europe.
“We don’t hear much about the International Space Station in the front page, but for almost 18 years now, it’s been orbiting with people whose governments on the ground don’t always see necessarily eye to eye. And the reason we don’t hear about it much, I think, is perhaps because we get along up there. We have no choice.
“There’s no big drama. People communicate every day, 365 days a year. And that to me is very reassuring. We can – we, the human beings -- if we really want to, if we really push, we can get together, put our brains together, our resources together and move along. It’s the first time in the history of mankind that so many nations have put so much effort into building a laboratory in one of the harshest environments, space. To further and advance our common knowledge and bring this back here on Earth where it counts. And that is what reassures me. We can do it.”
How often do you speak to the Prime Minister? Is it that a weekly thing?
“Yes. And he was here on his normal visit a couple of days ago and everybody thought that because there is this rumor, I will quit. I’m not. On the contrary I’m so motivated to do well and a good job for Canada.”
It must be very frustrating.
“It isn’t so bad.”
Well than you’ve got patience. Because I don’t know it seems --
“It’s nothing like having a teenager at home."
Well, that’s a good perspective. But that’s the most important thing is you’re still the mother of this boy and you probably have to interpret for him. Does he see this stuff too?
“Oh absolutely. When I said to him there’s going to be this report tomorrow that says I’m not working hard and he started laughing and saying that’s the understatement of the year. So that’s my son.”
