Stop pointing fingers, avoid ‘one size fits all’ solutions, and show respect to communities. These are some of the “big ideas” Quebec Liberal Party (PLQ) leadership hopeful Pablo Rodriguez says he wants to focus on. The former federal cabinet minister, who moved to Quebec from Argentina when he was eight, sat down with CJAD 800 Radio host Elias Makos to make his case about wanting to lead the oldest political party in Quebec. Some answers have been edited for clarity. Elias Makos: We’re joined by Pablo Rodriguez, of course, a familiar name and voice to our listeners, a former federal cabinet minister, and he says he’s the only one who can beat Francois Legault, but of course, there’s been a bit of a movement in the Liberal Party for an anybody but Pablo movement… It certainly seems last debate-wise, you were a bit of a target. Pablo Rodriguez: Yeah, it’s normal because they perceive me as the front-runner, and I think that when you ask the question to Quebecers, ‘who can beat Legault?’ I mean, the answer from most Quebecers is Pablo. Makos: That obviously must feel good. Now, I watched two of the debates. I subjected myself to watching two of the debates, one in English and one in French, and there are a lot of cliches that happen in debates because of short time periods: ‘Here’s 30 seconds explain this, right?’ We’ve got 10 minutes here. I want to talk about the bold ideas. Yeah, so give our listeners, hopefully, many of whom are members of the Liberal Party and will vote. Give us a bold idea to start off here about your vision. Rodriguez: Well, stop pointing fingers. How’s that for a start? Stop dividing people and stop blaming communities. For example, like Legault is doing. ‘Oh, we have to defend French, but against the Anglophone community.’ That’s wrong. The job of a premier is to unite, not to divide. So that has to change because we’re hurting our community. So that’s extremely important. Makos: Does that come attached with, ‘here’s what I’m going to do. I’m actually going to get rid of this law or that law? Rodriguez: It’s the tone. You have to change some of the stuff. For example, on 96, we can discuss that later, and I’ll tell you what we need to change, but also the tone. The way you see Quebec, the way you see the communities. I mean, for me, a Quebecer’s a Quebecer’s a Quebecer. I don’t care what you speak, English, French. I mean, my first language is Spanish. I didn’t speak a word of English or French. I still have that big accent in English, but you know what? I’m a Quebecer, and we’re all the same. So as a premier, man, your job is to unite, not to divide. Makos: I get that, and I know you go into a general election, you’re going to tell Quebecers, ‘I’m going to unite,’ and then they’re going to ask, ‘well, how?’ When it comes to Bill 96, do you have a reimagination of an official policy, some sort of real bold idea on how to do the uniting? Rodriguez: There’s just things that shouldn’t be there. For example, the fact that someone can get in your business without a warrant and leave with your stuff doesn’t make any sense. I don’t even know if that’s legal. I mean, some of the things he did, this is outside of 96, but what he did to Concordia and McGill, that’s a shame. That’s unacceptable, and I tagged this at the time. I was minister in Ottawa, and I came out right away, and I said, ‘This is wrong.’ And I’m not the only one to say that, by the way, and not only the anglophone community. I spoke with deans from francophone universities, and they always say, ‘It’s a bad idea.’ We’re shutting windows and doors to the world. We have to unite and support the education system… The first day I’m in there, I reverse that, and I said it yesterday on francophone television we reverse that. It’s a bad idea. Makos: So, a reversal on the tuition changes. Would you come up with your own French-language legislation? Or would you just say, ‘We’re going to review a few things?’ Rodriguez: We do have to protect and promote French. I mean, that’s a fact, but there’s many ways to do it. For example, investing in culture. Our kids, especially young immigrants, I was one of them when I was young. I came here when I was eight. If they have access to more television series, more music in French, then it’s more interesting for them. It’s not only about sitting them on a bench and saying, ‘You’re going to learn French.’ It’s offering those options, and you know what, maybe one day those kids, they’re going to produce music or television series or films in French because of that. Makos: So, on a bold idea front, I think what the Quebec government just announced, the bill they tabled, the culture minister. I’m not a fan of this bill, personally speaking, but boy, is it ever bold to say the Quebec government is going to decide what shows up on the homepage when you log into Netflix. Are you a fan of that? Rodriguez: I did some of that when I was a federal minister. I was Canadian Heritage Minister. The thing is that these companies, like Disney, Netflix and others, come here, and they make a lot of money. I’m happy for them. Good for you, but they do have to invest in our own productions, and that’s fundamental in English and French, local stuff. So this is what I tabled as a bill, and this is what is going to happen. Makos: I’ve been part of some of these productions, so I’ve seen the work that Netflix and others are actually filming here, but when I go home, and I turn on my TV, and I tap on Netflix, should it show what this company believes I want to watch, or should it show what the government says? Rodriguez: No, it’s not up to the government to say. But yes, they should offer local content. They should offer Canadian Quebec content, of course. Makos: So put money in production, but you won’t interfere in how these companies decide to show you? Rodriguez: You never touch the algorithm. Never ever touch algorithm. It’s them, but you give them the direction, though, do whatever you want to get there, but make sure that our production exists because if you’re not discovered in our system today, you don’t exist. Makos: What I want to get to, and I think, it is a big preoccupation for our listeners, economy, for a second. Because for everything, all the great social programs, you need to have some wealth building, you got to pay for it. So, give me a bold idea on how to turn the tide in Quebec and increase our wealth. Rodriguez: I’ve been to every region, and they feel left out, they feel disrespected, and they say, ‘Listen, we need support to develop our economy, but this one size fits all doesn’t work.’ So in the first six months, I’m going to hold a summit in every region to make sure that we adapt the programs of the government to the needs of the region. What works in Abitibi doesn’t necessarily work in with fisheries and in the Madeleine or in Quebec City. Makos: So, one size fits all, that’s gone. Rodriguez: It’s gone. That’s a bad idea in health care too, it’s a bad idea. It’s way too centralized. Another bold idea, we’re going to reopen the CLSCs that closed in different regions, and I’m going to re-equip those that are there and make sure that they’re attractive to doctors, that they go there, and they have what they need to work. The system today is hospital-centric. I don’t know if I invented a word or if it exists, but for too many people, the only way to see a doctor if you feel sick is you go to the ER and you wait 15 hours. That has to change. So we’re going to take people away from the hospitals, reopen the CLSCs, and also make sure that for some stuff, specialized nurses or pharmacists can do the diagnosis and take away that from the doctors so they can do other stuff. Makos: Let me ask you, because we brought up health care here, and right now, it’s a very contentious time, the doctors and the government are battling. We’re trying to wade through the beginnings of Sante-Quebec, and maybe it’s early returns to try and judge them, but so far, not seeing the results. Keep going on the health care front, and how you would change maybe it’s the tone with doctors and how you would change other things that we’re doing in the health-care system. Rodriguez: Well, the problem is with the actual government. It is always blaming someone, right? They blame the teachers, a while ago for the deficit. Now, they blame the doctors for this. They blame the federal government, of course, on a daily basis, but it’s never their responsibility. It’s never their fault. They’re always victims. I think that first, you have to respect the person you’re negotiating with, and I don’t think it’s the case with the doctors, and you have to sit around the table and get deals around the table. I used to do that as a minister. Actually, I’ve done that all my life. So again, stop pointing fingers and attacking, sit down and do the best. Makos: Let’s talk a little bit about immigration. That is also something that has become a contentious issue. Of course, your story, a lot of people would say, is just an example of the success story of Quebec immigration. But, there are a lot of people that say that we have gone too far down the road of immigration. The levels are too high. Of course, the Quebec government has been saying that for a while in battles with Ottawa. If you lead the Quebec Liberal Party, how will you lead on that front? Rodriguez: I think that the levels are a bit too high. We have to take a step back and adapt those levels to the needs of different regions and the economy. Again, one size fits all doesn’t work. There’s some regions that desperately need workers. Others, no. The other thing is, when you try to attract these people to a region, well, they’re not only workers, they’re human beings. They come with a family. They come with kids. So it’s not only about the job, it’s about creating the quality of life around them. They have to have access to health care. They have to have access to kindergartens, the CPE and all of that, and I don’t think the government understands that. Makos: Would you have any creative ideas to get people into regions? Because I often hear the pushback, ‘Well, no, you can’t tell an immigrant where to live. It’s still a free country. You get to go wherever you want.’ Do you have a creative solution to try and do what you want there with immigration, but in the right parts of the province? Rodriguez: If you only talk about work, and say, ‘We’re going to send immigrants there because they’re going to get a good job,’ but if they don’t get access to the rest, as I said, it’s not going to work. In my case, I came here, but I stayed very little in Montreal, then we moved to Sherbrooke. There weren’t many immigrants in Sherbrooke, let me tell you 40-something years ago, but the system was there, and access to health, access to a lot of things, was there, so we have to make sure that when immigrants to go to a community, it’s not only about the job at making but access to services. Makos: I want to wrap up here by asking you about government spending. Obviously, you come with a little bit of baggage because you were part of the Trudeau Liberal government, and I think a lot of people have this idea that that government just spent, spent, spent way too much. We have a province that is in a bit of a bind financially here. So what’s your idea or vision on reining in, maybe you think we don’t have to rein in spending, but what do you do about government spending? Rodriguez: We have to take back control of the spending. It doesn’t make any sense. The Liberal government left a $7 billion surplus, and when I started the race, it was down to a $11 billion deficit. Now it’s 14. It’s probably higher. Actually, we know it’s going to be higher than 14. So we have to look at different options. We have to make different difficult decisions. We have to freeze the number of civil servants. I’m not talking about doctors or nurses or teachers. They play a fundamental role, but those who are in the offices, and see how we can probably do better or with less. Makos: Why is it always easier said than done? Because I’ve heard this before so many times. Rodriguez: It takes political courage. It has to be done the right way, again, not pointing fingers, but through discussions, collaborations and facts. One of the problems, and I realize, is that we don’t have statistics or real information on the productivity of the government. It sounds weird what I’m saying, but it’s true. So one of the first things that I’m going to do, I’m going to work with research centres and universities, and I’ve already met with some of them to make sure that we have the tools to evaluate productivity within government so we can adapt the services.
