Former deputy premier and lead proponent of the Forever Canadian petition Thomas Lukaszuk joins Alberta Primetime host Michael Higgins to discuss recent Alberta independence polling and a strategy pivot for the Forever Canadian campaign. This interview has been edited for clarity and length. Michael Higgins: The premier on Alberta Primetime last week said you had withdrawn your request to have your petition question go to a general referendum. What’s your reaction to what she had to say? Thomas Lukaszuk: I don’t know what reality the premier lives in. It’s completely a lie. I have not withdrawn anything. There is no way to withdraw anything. Our petition with 556,000 signatures has been filed with Elections Alberta, has been certified and approved and is now in the premier’s hands in the legislature. Nothing has been amended, nothing has been withdrawn, nothing has been changed. I have no clue what the premier is talking about. MH: Petition aside, you remain very active in this space. What are you prepared to pivot the Forever Canadian petition to? TL: We have been actually working very hard with our group of volunteers and organizers over the last couple of months pivoting this campaign. Because it’s a totally different campaign to collect signatures compared to fighting a referendum. We are now ready, and we will be making some announcements within the next couple of weeks. First of all, there are some very significant groups of Albertans joining Forever Canadian. So I’m very excited to announce that. We also will be launching somewhat of an educational campaign, sharing with Albertans the facts about separatism and what it would actually mean to an average Alberta family. We will also be further collecting lists of supporters to make sure on referendum day everybody comes out and votes. MH: Why go through all this effort when the latest Angus Reid polls suggest a majority of Albertans oppose separation? TL: They always have. There isn’t a poll that combined hardcore separatists with the softcore separatists that has ever exceeded 30 per cent. But as we know our premier is hellbent on having a referendum, because the statistics are different within her own party. It looks like the majority of UCP supporters and a large contingent of MLAs are pro-separatist, and they demand a referendum. The premier is somewhat beholden to them. I am on the assumption, because I cannot not be on the assumption, that there will be a referendum. So it’s incumbent upon every Canadian to be ready for a referendum. Because on a balance of probability, looking at the premier’s disposition towards this issue, we will have a referendum in this province and we have to be prepared. MH: So you’re fairly certain the pro-separatist group’s petition will be successful in meeting the lower threshold for signatures? TL: It’s hard to predict, but I managed to collect nearly half a million signatures in 90 days without any help from the premier. This group with the assistance of the Alberta government has to collect half the number in four months, as opposed to three months. They’ve been preparing for it for two years. I had literally one day to prepare. I imagine they will collect the required number of signatures. If they don’t, I imagine the premier will find another reason to have a referendum on this issue, because this group who now is the majority of the UCP party demands a referendum one way or the other. MH: As a former cabinet minister and deputy premier, what’s to be made of claims UCP MLAs have signed the petition? TL: That is unfortunate. MLAs have the right to sign any petition out there. I can tell you I don’t know of any MLAs that signed the Forever Canadian petition because we weren’t soliciting their signatures. But for an MLA of any political party, or for a member of parliament of any political party to sign this petition, there is a problem. Because the only reason MLAs are MLAs and particularly cabinet ministers, is because they swore an oath of allegiance to the Crown. When I was in the legislature I swore an oath of allegiance to Queen Elizabeth II,now it’s to King Charles. So the only reason they get paid by taxpayers, by the Crown, and they get to use the logo and stationary and sit in that chamber is because they actually swore on the Bible or some other holy book their allegiance to the crown. To be collecting a paycheque as an MLA and at the same time working to break up Canada and Alberta to leave the Crown is problematic. I think MLAs should sit out and allow this process to take place and do what I’m asking the premier to do: have a vote in the legislature. If you want to rise in the legislature and say you think Alberta should separate from Canada all power to you, but to be working on behalf of separatists as an MLA I think one should resign the seat first. MH: If we go back to the Angus Reid polling, they also asked about the handling of the separation debate. You and Jason Kenney sit at plus three while Danielle Smith sits at minus 17. How political do you make the Forever Canadian campaign when you see numbers like that? TL: This is a political issue. Nothing is more political than keeping our country united and together. But it is not a partisan issue. At least, I am making sure that Forever Canadian is not partisan. We have everyone from former Reformers to Liberals to New Democrats working on our campaign. It’s no secret to any Albertan or any Canadian that Mr. Kenney and I have not seen eye to eye on many policy issues, and we fought like cats and dogs when both of us were ministers at the same time. But I welcome Mr. Kenney and I would proudly stand next to him and Prime Minister Harper and Prime Minister Chretien and former Liberal leader Dion on the same stage fighting for a united Canada and for preserving our integrity while we are actually challenged by foreign powers. This is a nonpartisan issue. This is a situation where whether we like each other or not, we set all that aside. We are all proud Canadians, and we are in the same trenches together. MH: As political as it is, would you take it as far as creating party status? TL: I don’t have any political aspirations. I’m doing this simply because I have a lot of gratitude for Canada. As you can tell, I wasn’t born here. Canada has created an amazing opportunity for my family and millions of other immigrants. I also understand how fragile the situation now is geopolitically, and how we cannot be divided internally. I hate the situation that Albertans are not talking to each other because this issue is so divisive. I also saw what happened in Quebec and how the economy in Quebec was devastated by flirting with separatism. I don’t want any of that to happen in Alberta. I’m doing this because I’m just passionate. I love this country, but I’m not running for any office. But you’re right. A lot of people are questioning me, am I going to run as a leader for some political party, or maybe run federally? I always say never say never. But this is not a priority. We have to win this referendum. We have to win it with a high majority, so we put separatism to bed. Then if opportunity arises, and if it interests me at that point maybe, but it’s not in the cards right now.
