India never provided their own evidence amid concerns about Sikh separatists in Canada: former NSIAs

The Power Play panel discusses the relationship between Canada and India, trust issues after the last envoy's expulsion, and national security concerns.

A former CSIS director and national security adviser to two prime ministers says India never provided evidence to Canada when it would raise concerns about Sikh separatist activity on Canadian soil.

Richard Fadden made the comments as part of a panel interview with fellow former NSIAs Jody Thomas and Vincent Rigby on CTV Power Play with Vassy Kapelos on Monday.

Fadden said when he was national security advisor, Indian officials would raise concerns about Sikh separatism in Canada “all the time.”

“They never gave us any evidence, and we kept trying to explain to them, ‘it’s not enough for you to just tell us we have the rule of law, we have our own procedures and whatnot,’” said Fadden, who served as national security adviser to former prime ministers Justin Trudeau and Stephen Harper, and as director of CSIS from 2009-2013.

“So, I hope, if one thing has changed, I hope there is an effective exchange of law enforcement information on both sides, so that, if possible, we can move to the courts,” he added. “That’s a tough thing for an intelligence agency to do, we even have trouble doing it here, you know, intelligence to evidence.”

In an exclusive broadcast interview with CTV Question Period on Sunday, India’s new high commissioner to Canada, Dinesh Patnaik, said renewed conversations between the two countries have focused on “the entire security situation,” which he says includes the Sikh separatist movement.

Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi and his government have long condemned the pro-Khalistan movement, which supports the establishment of an independent Sikh state in India, and has been critical of Canada for not opposing Sikh separatism within its own borders.

Relations between Canada and India have been strained since 2023, when Trudeau said there were “credible allegations” that agents of the Indian government were involved in the assassination of Canadian Sikh leader Hardeep Singh Nijjar earlier that year.

A year later, the RCMP and the federal government accused Indian diplomats and consular officials based in Canada of engaging in clandestine activities linked to serious criminal activity in this country, including homicides and extortions.

In his interview, Patnaik said Canada has still not provided any evidence to prove those allegations.

Asked directly by host Vassy Kapelos, Patnaik also called the allegations “preposterous and absurd” and “without any substantial evidence.”

Asked by Kapelos how she interpreted the high commissioner’s comments, Thomas said Patnaik is “doing his job,” but that it “flies in the face of reality.”

Thomas — who was NSIA from 2022 to 2024 and visited India during that time — also said India and Canada have a “very different perception about rights in a democracy.”

“I had to point out to them that, yes, there, you don’t like the separatist movement. Here in Canada, we have a separatist party sitting in Parliament,” Thomas said. “There is freedom of speech in this country.”

“Now, you can’t use freedom of speech as a shield for hate speech, so we watched for that very carefully,” she added. “But ultimately, the Sikh separatists have the right to protest here in Canada, and it amounts to nothing in terms of impact in India.”

Thomas said she also struggled with obtaining evidence from Indian officials during her time as NSIA.

Former NSIA Vincent Rigby, who was in the role from 2020 to 2021, said he had a similar experience.

“I think also there is that perception with the Indian government as to what the Canadian government can actually do,” he said. “I got those same phone calls as you when I was NSIA, and it was, ‘there are a bunch of people protesting outside the high commission right now or at a consulate in Vancouver, what are you going to do about that?’ And it was a matter of having to say, ‘well, in Canada, you can actually do that,’”

During their panel, the three former NSIAs also discussed efforts underway to reset the relationship between Canada and India, with all three agreeing it will be a “fragile process.”

Carney invited Modi to the G7 summit in Kananaskis, Alta. in June, and Foreign Affairs Minister Anita Anand wrapped up a trip to India — which also included a meeting with Modi — last week.

The NSIAs also discussed Canada’s place in the world, specifically how it can rebuild its relationships with countries it might find adversarial in some sectors, but potential allies in other areas.

You can watch former NSIAs Jody Thomas, Richard Fadden, and Vincent Rigby’s full panel on CTV Power Play with Vassy Kapelos in the video player at the top of this article.

With files from CTV News’ Stephanie Ha