Interim RCMP commissioner Duheme 'very concerned' about foreign interference
Interim RCMP commissioner Duheme 'very concerned' about foreign interference
As questions continue to swirl around the issue of other countries' meddling in Canadian affairs, interim RCMP Commissioner Michael Duheme says he's "very, very concerned" about foreign interference, and would like to see the national force be able to use intelligence as evidence in its investigations.
In an interview on CTV's Question Period with Vassy Kapelos airing on Sunday, Duheme was asked if, given all that has recently been alleged regarding China interfering in federal elections and the years of warnings from various national security agencies, he thinks a public inquiry is warranted.
Duheme said that while it is not up to him to judge what steps the federal government should take, he shares others’ worries about the issue of foreign interference.
"I've seen it through a criminal lens, as to what we've been involved with; foreign actor interference. And I also see it through when the service briefs the round table at the deputy minister level. So yes, I am very, very concerned."
He said he'd like to see the work underway to examine how to improve the ways Canadian national security agencies collaborate and share information about foreign interference include looking at ways to change legislation to allow the RCMP to use intelligence garnered by CSIS, as evidence.
As it stands, information collected by Canada's spy agency may be informative, but it often cannot be used in criminal investigations.
"I believe there are efforts to be made to change legislation," Duheme said. "This has been discussed for numerous years. And there's good work that's been done with the service [CSIS] and as well as the RCMP. But, I think we have to take it one step further and really, really, really drill down and see what the options are, so we can overcome the question of intel into evidence."
Duheme said he'd "definitely" like to be able to use more intelligence as evidence, but he understands the challenges around how that intelligence is sometimes collected. It's something the two federal agencies have been working on for several years, he said.
"You don't want to reveal any trade secrets of how this is collected. And again, for a criminal investigation, you have to be able to demonstrate how the investigation began. And with the full and frank disclosure that we face… that is challenging sometimes when you want to use some intelligence that's not accessible or cannot be used for law enforcement purposes," Duheme said.
"I'm hoping we can land [on] a solution where we can use intelligence in our criminal investigations."
Conversation around delineating the difference between intelligence and evidence has come up during the recent parliamentary committee hearings on the issue of foreign interference, with numerous top federal security officials cautioning MPs that taking intelligence "out of context" or without the appropriate caveats can be "very pernicious."
MPs were warned that intelligence that CSIS or other national security agencies collect "rarely paints a full or concrete or actionable picture" and "almost always comes heavily caveated and qualified."
"Canadians would be better served if the debate took into account what intelligence is and what intelligence is not. And that misreading or taking out of context an intel report can lead to divisiveness, which in itself, plays into the hands of some of our adversaries," David Morrison, member of the Critical Election Incident Public Protocol and deputy minister of foreign affairs told MPs during an extended committee hearing on the issue in early March.
During his portion of testimony on the same day, Duheme told MPs that the RCMP had not received any "actionable evidence" that Mounties could use to launch an investigation, regarding foreign election interference in the last two federal campaigns. That remains the case.
Though, the interim RCMP commissioner pointed to other instances where the RCMP has investigated alleged foreign interference, including charging a Hydro-Quebec employee with spying for China, and the instances of China operating overseas "police stations" in major Canadian cities.
"We are investigating any foreign interference that is brought to our attention, and again with respect to having the right information to launch a criminal investigation," he said.
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